PODCAST INTRO: Hey, beautiful soul. And welcome to Dear Body, I'm Listening, the podcast for women navigating chronic symptoms, invisible illness, and that daily dance between hope and exhaustion. If you've ever been told that it's all in your head, well, this podcast is for you because your body is not lying, and neither are you.
Hi. I'm Donna Piper, movement therapist, Pilates instructor and chronic illness navigator. After years of being dismissed, misdiagnosed and doing everything, quote unquote, right, but still getting sicker, I created this space to tell our truth. Here, we talk about swelling, brain fog, nervous system crashes, and the kind of symptoms that don't always show up on lab results. We're gonna explore limp, breath, movement, self trust, latest research, books, relationships, basically everything from a place of compassion and honesty. This isn't about fixing your body. It's about finally being heard and getting some answers.
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Donna Piper: So hey, beautiful, welcome back to the podcast, Dear Body, I'm Listening where we tell the truth about what it means to live in a body that needs rest, healing and space, but still wants to make an impact. Today's guest is someone who has found a way to let words do the work when her energy couldn't. I'm so excited to have her here. I love her so much. Brittany Herzberg is a copywriter, SEO expert, and the host of The Basic B podcast. After moving to a new state and nearly not making rent, two clients found her out of nowhere, all because she had optimized her site for search. That moment changed everything. She realized that she had a gift for SEO. And over time, became known as the SEO Queen by hundreds of happy clients. Now, she teaches service providers, especially the heart led energy sensitive ones, how to use storytelling and SEO to get found, get clients, and get rest.
So welcome, Miss Brittany. I'm so excited to have you here today. There's so many things I could talk to you about. And this podcast could literally be like 10 hours, so I'm going to try to rein it in a little bit because I get so excited. But let's really just talk a little bit about how you got into SEO. How that moment that you're like, oh, gosh, I'm new, and still people find me. That seems like a very pivotal moment, especially for those of us who are either new online, or want to create an online business. And before you answer, just a little bit of backstory. I have lipedema, I have mast cell activation syndrome, I have so many hypermobility EDS, I have POTS, and I have chronic fatigue. And all of those things mess with your brain and your energy, so I'm really interested in hearing like, you didn't have all those things, but you're able to be new in an environment and still get seen. So just let you take it away.
Brittany Herzberg: It was totally accidental. This was in the era of Clubhouse. Were you ever on that social platform? It was all audio. It was like 2020, 2021. We were all just looking for connection, and it was really fun. But I heard so many people in these marketing rooms talking about SEO. I'm like, all right, I've heard these letters. I don't know what that means. I was kind of still just dabbling, learning about it. But then my boyfriend and I moved from North Carolina to Vermont, brand new. Quote, unquote, took my massage therapist practice with me. I had no clients. I closed down the one that had, I don't know, 70 clients, and then opened this one with Chad zero. And all I really did was go to my website, change a few things. Wherever I said Raleigh or North Carolina, I was changing it to Vermont, and it wasn't working. Nothing was happening. No clients were coming in. I was so sad. I was the main breadwinner. Still am, but that was a really big deal. So I was responsible for rent and keeping a roof over our head, and keeping food on the table. I was absolutely panicking because the bank account just kept dwindling.
And then one day, I had this couple, and I want to say that they were coming in from their honeymoon. They just got married, had their honeymoon. I don't know if they were coming to the town to be on their honeymoon. Anyway, they found me, and they booked, and I was like, what? How did you find me? What worked? And they just said that they Googled. They saw me, they checked out my website, and came in. So at that moment, I was like, I really have to figure out what this is. And once I started diving in, which looked like listening to podcasts, being in those Clubhouse rooms, talking to people, Googling the crap out of things, being on YouTube for half a day, I'm like, what is this stuff? Because there was no centralized place for like, here's what SEO is, and here how you do it easily and simply. And it was just the SEO bros being like, you have to walk into some thousands of dollars in a full couple year contract, and it sounded so intimidating, costly and just complicated. And I was like, there's no way. So ME being ME and super stubborn, I'm like, I need to find out how this works. And it's so simple. And ever since I've discovered that, I put things into practice on my website for my clients websites, my boyfriend started his business and used SEO from the get go. I'm just like, now I can't shut up about it, because it really, truly does work for you. Like you said, you can rest. You can be a human. You can live life, whether that's fun or challenging at the moment.
Donna Piper: And we're laughing so much because before we got on, we were just talking about all of my crazy mishaps that I'm not really getting much better at. But you have to laugh at it sometimes, too. So it started a good vibe for the podcast. So you saying all that, if anyone out there doesn't know what SEO is, let's start there. What do those letters stand for?
Brittany Herzberg: SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization. I have a friend, and she's been saying this. I kind of say it a different way. But since I've been in her world, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I love it. I have to seal it. Search everywhere optimization, because we're seeing that it doesn't just apply to websites. People think it only applies to websites. I've been saying this for years, but it applies to your podcast, to your blog post, your YouTube channel, to your social media profiles, to all these different things, directories you're listed in, and you can optimize them so that you get found by the right people. It's like this magical matchmaking happens because you are saying the words about, I help these people with this thing. I'm known for this thing. And whatever that search bar is, it is like, someone typed in these words. And you have these words over here.
Donna Piper: It's more like a business sort of dating app. My brain doesn't always work, and I have brain fog and all of these things. When you were starting out, trying to figure out your voice, is there a lot of trial and error when you try to figure out what words people type in to kind of be searched everywhere?
Brittany Herzberg: Yes and no. So the way that I approach SEO is, even myself, it is a very confronting exercise. However, it is a game changer. It is why my clients are implementing SEO and showing up, and getting more traffic, and getting more inquiries within weeks, as opposed to months, which is industry standard. So I start off with these questions. You can write them down if you're listening, and then pause, and really truly answer them. Take 15 minutes or something. The three questions are, who do you help? How do you help them? And what do you want to be known for? And when I say, what do you want to be known for, that one seems to trip people up the most. It's really just, what do you want? If I'm referring Donna to someone, what does Donna want me saying about her? So what do we want? How do we want people phrasing things like, oh, you need to see so and so, or you need to talk to so and so because blank. What is that blank? Tell me the blank, and that really helps to figure out, it focuses you so that you know what keywords would be super powerful to use, because there's tons of other SEO pros out there. But how do I want to phrase it? And who do I want to help? And so what do I then need to talk about? Because what are they interested in learning about? What problems are they facing? It just really helps streamline everything.
Donna Piper: And I know you did tons of research, and I'm sure you do this. Anyone that is an online entrepreneur that sees your ideal client, but even before that. We met through marketing, whatever, online stuff, I can't really, but whatever. But it was about this stuff, how we met. If you're an online entrepreneur and you're either starting out, or you just don't have the energy to do that, I think AI bots, it's getting a little easier to kind of have AI ask you questions. But to really get into these three questions, they can be confronting. And to really start like, yes, you want your client to come buy stuff, but you have to really put yourself first. How do you want to be searched? And starting there other than starting from the other position where it's like, find out all of what your ideal clients are searching. Because I know for me, I was like, what? I don't know.
Brittany Herzberg: Because in the market research, it's like, what are their problems? And what solutions are they looking for? So that you're bringing up a really good point. And actually, something that I've been talking about a lot this week in my SEO program, which is that you do not have to know anything really about your ideal client. You don't have to go down that big, giant rabbit hole and fill out that 40 page google doc of all the stuff about your ideal client. It's so much about you. You're starting with you, and that's flipping everything about marketing on its head. But you really are starting with you. Because who do you want to help? And maybe you don't know, so maybe you could keep it broad. Just entrepreneurs. I mean, frankly, my answer for who do I want to help? Establish entrepreneurs. That is specific enough for me. I do SEO for established entrepreneurs, and that can be whatever it wants to mean. But I could say SEO for coaches only. I could say SEO for copywriters only. So it is really freeing because one of my students is like, I have to overhaul my website copy, and I have to do all this client research. I'm like, no, you don't. She's like, wait, what? It starts with you. What do you want to get found for? What do you want to do with your schedule? And what projects do you want to be working on?
Donna Piper: Which is so much freer than trying to figure that out, especially if you're a solopreneur and entrepreneur. Or even if you've switched or changed, it's those questions. I have been in so many different groups where just the thought of, once we're behind the scenes, getting a group and a cohort, and whatever person we have hired to be our business, like guru at the time before this, they're like, oh, change your energy, change this. And then they get in, and the first thing here is fill their ICA thing. I know many women that got so visibly angry as soon as that was mentioned, because they're like, I don't want to do that. I want to do it from a different perspective. And then I really like that you did mention that it is confronting, because then you have to own what you want to be known for. What do I want people to say about me? It's so scary, but it makes more sense that your business is going to be more powerful because you're not afraid. This is really what I wanted. It's not just a dream I'm having in my head, I'm going to verbalize it. Not only am I going to verbalize it, I'm going to put it on the internet.
Brittany Herzberg: I don't want anyone listening to this to be like, oh, she sounds like she's got it figured. I have been on quite a roller coaster. So even just within the last, I don't know, six or eight months, my stuff has shifted to, Donna and I were talking about this before we got on the podcast, I'm confident now. I know what my stuff is. I know my offer suite. I know all of these things. That was not the case even just last year, because I was a case study copywriting, SEO copywriting, SEO strategy. And finally, earlier this year, I was like, if someone really was like, what do you want people to find you for? It all starts with SEO, and then it can spiral off into, what is that wheel with the spokes so they feel like the hub, the hub is SEO, and the spokes can be case studies, blog posts, podcasts, all these kinds of things. But it starts with SEO. So even just being brave enough, which sounds so stupid, but being brave enough to be just a SEO for an established entrepreneur. That's a huge step. And maybe if you're listening, maybe that looks like that for you. Maybe you're offering four different things. But really at the core, there's one. It can be very scary to be like, okay, just the one thing.
Donna Piper: It is so true, especially when you're just trying to figure out what you want to make an impact. Because anyone that is listening to this is interested in entrepreneurship, or has a business, or doing something online, and then also wants to optimize it, because we want to get seen. We're doing all this work. And if you have a chronic illness, you're not going to show up. I have plans. There are days that I'm feeling good. I'm like, I'm going to show up and do X, Y, Z. I have this whole marketing thing. And then I disappear for days because I don't have energy. I forgot what I was going to do. I was really excited. How does that work? These real things that happen. We were also talking before that my weight changed from, I wasn't super skinny, but I was 4"6'. It was manageable. I always wanted to be thinner. I couldn't figure out why. And then now that I'm a 10/12, and some days I'm more swollen. It's like, God, I really don't want to show up. So there is a thing of not just all the other stuff. It's just like, I don't look good, I don't sound good, and I don't feel good. But how can I still run a business?
A side note, chronic illness is super freaking expensive. Out of pocket for everything. I'll need like three surgeries. Even wearing compression garments, they're anywhere from 100, not custom. $1,500 if they're custom. Your insurance doesn't pay for it. MLD treatments, other treatments, everything is like $200 devices. When you're sick, you still need to eat, you still need to make rent, and you have to pay all this extra money to get healthy, right? So having SEO, I just think it is brilliant. I did work with Brittany, and she did my other website before I decided to change it all again, because I couldn't sustain what I love, and I was doing a lot of relationships. So the clients, I have that. I still do. But I also knew that being sick, I needed to have a different voice. So me and Brittany are gonna have to chat after this. My SEO was working when I would do these things before, but I've changed it. My whole point is that you can still, and when you are sick too. I don't know if you ever experienced this Brittany, but you also feel like sometimes you're like, oh, I want to help, but I can't. I don't have the energy. So what do I do? How do I live in this world and still feel like everyone just generally wants to make a contribution, to feel included in the world? And when you're sick, you feel different, and then it's hard to explain to people. And I don't look super sick to most people, but I know that I am right. What are your thoughts on anything that I said about that?
Brittany Herzberg: So many thoughts. One thing I want to say is that you were talking about, you're already putting this stuff out there, whether it's blog posts, podcasts episodes, just a main website page, you have these things, and people just don't know. I didn't know. We don't know that we have these spots that we can plug in these magical phrases with SEO keywords, and that can actually make that blog post, or that webpage, or that thing go out and market for us. We just don't know that that even exists. So SEO is like an extra credit for business owners. And when I was in school, I was always forever doing the extra credit things because I'm like, well, it's there. Why would I not take advantage of it when I know that it's right in front of me? So now that you're listening to this episode and you hear us talking about it, you know that SEO is there. It's like, oh, okay, this is some extra credit that I could do one step at a time. Maybe it's the website, then a blog, then podcast, whatever. So that's one thought. Another thought that I'm having, as you're talking about, like, oh, I don't look super sick. So I've struggled with migraines since I was seven. And when you have a migraine, nothing really looks wrong with you unless you're walking around with one of the caps on, or you have a blanket over your head, or unless you're making it super obvious, or throwing up in the middle of a mall like one of us did when we were six years old, and shutting down an escalator. Unless something like that's happening, you don't look sick.
And so there's lots of chronic illnesses where that's the case, and you do feel really bad. I know I felt really bad when I would have to cancel massage appointments, or I would have to push even copywriting or SEO deadlines for clients, or something like that. I have to push it out because it just can't complete the task. It's a really crappy feeling. And when we're thinking of it from a marketing perspective, you were saying that you have these good days and you're like, I'm gonna show up. I'm thinking maybe you were imagining filming a reel, doing a video or something. So you have these days, and then you're like, or it's scheduled, and then you wake up and you're like, I don't actually feel like doing it. This is not the day. You don't have to worry about that with SEO, because it's just plugging words into these different places. So you can optimize stuff that you already have, old blog posts. You can turn a podcast guest interview into a blog post. You can optimize your services pages. You can take advantage of this slowly, strategically over time. If that feels like a better pacing, you could knock it out all at once. And then once this stuff is in place, that it's out there marketing for you, whether or not you're having a good day.
Donna Piper: Which is such a relief to know that SEO is out there. And it's not like you have to hire a company that you're going to pay like $6,000 a month forever to do these things. You can actually take charge, work with someone like you that does your work, or you have a few evergreen. I know you have some programs and stuff. And even if you were to sub it out to someone and you can't afford to spend the $6,000 a month on these SEO groups that do this, at least you know on your website of where it is like, if I have a photo, then this could be a tag. You're learning something too about your business that's valuable like H1 and H2 headlines, and all that stuff that you see. But there's a reason that they're there. You give an actual strategy of how to make it work. So not only are you just looking for keywords and things like that, but it's actually how you place them. There's two things that it's out there, and then you work with you. You help me, and you help people find where to put those keywords, because there is some strategy behind phrasing, photos and things.
Brittany Herzberg: So when I first switched from doing massage therapy over to the world of copywriting, it was my first step, and then it was SEO. And now, I'm in the SEO bubble. But when I made that first switch from massage to copywriting, I remember going, oh, I can optimize all my image titles to have keywords in them. So I did that for all of my images. Healthcare copywriter was specifically one of the phrases that I was using. And when I started changing my image titles, I did that search on Google to test it. My pictures were showing up in the first two or three rows. Absolutely dominating. And I was like, oh, this stuff, really? So even just by having image titles change, this is something that I practically shoved down the throats, especially photographers. I'd like at least five pictures per page. I know you have a lot, but the impact and the quickness of the impact, the fast turnaround, the fast ROI is so huge for people, because there's these tiny little things that we can do. You're saying the headlines. You can learn what the hierarchy is with the headlines because, yes, there's strategy behind it. It's not just about the font choice. I used to think that it was. Here's a practical tip for anyone listening, if you're like, wait, what headings? On your website pages, you have something called your H1 heading. You need one and only one on every single page. Back in the day, Brittany here had seven on her home page, and that is not a good thing because the search engines are looking to that H1 for what is the main point of this page, what is the main keyword. And if you've got seven, it's like, wait, you have way too much here. Its brain gets fried, and so it can't understand what you're all about when it should be sharing you with someone who's doing a search. So that's one little tip that you can take, and put into place. Definitely don't have ING 3452, because it's just not helping anyone.
Donna Piper: I know I had a lot of those. I think the H1 definitely. I really thought, like, oh, you want to stylize your website. But really, going back in there and having this knowledge, like I said, you have someone do it for you, or you do it. Because SEO does seem like, oh, my gosh. Somewhere out in the internet, and how do I get all these things, that bots crawl and what to do. But once you kind of see what should be in your website, then you can check people's work as well because it's also empowering even if you don't want to do it yourself to know like, okay, when I click on a photo, is it going to come up with what it is searching for? Are they actually doing the stuff to optimize my website like they say they did, and not to be Debbie Downer. Maybe some people are malicious. But I know a lot of stories where you hire out this stuff and they just haven't actually come through. Not in the way, and it's kind of not really what you discussed. I don't know if you're in that kind of world, or if you've seen anything. You can bring up some red flags to more people. Because, again, chronic illnesses are expensive. Hiring people out is expensive. Running your own business, there's a lot of cost in it so you want to be able to get the most for your buck.
Brittany Herzberg: Very least, I like bouncing on at the very least. You want to know that your money is actually going to something that's going to come back to you. You want to know that you're spending money on something that is going to actually happen. The amount of times, I probably have like 80% of my client base, I would say. Have either taken workshops from people and come out the other side like, I still am not clear on what SEO is, or what I need to do. Or they've worked with an agency, or just an individual SEO person, and they've frankly been screwing the people, taking the money and running. But you said that you were doing this thing, and I'm in there, and I'm like, I'm so sorry. Don't shoot the messenger. But blah, blah, blah, blah is wrong with this. And it's disheartening. It's really sad. I have people where they later have learned that I do SEO, and they were like, I wish I knew that you did SEO because I hired this other person and they gave me these keywords. There's one specific client story in mind that I have, that's like swirling around. So I'll share that he went and worked with another SEO person. They weren't bad. It wasn't like the person actually did work. However, the type of work that this person does leads itself to need a lot of personality, especially when it comes to the words on their website. The person who was doing the SEO keyword research and the SEO strategy sucked the personality out of it, and it totally shifted the way that that business came across, if you were to be someone to go to the website.
So it was costing him money. It was costing him clients, and he could tell. And thankfully, he didn't let it sit too long. And he basically wrote to me and was like, I purchased this other person. I didn't know you were doing this. I'm so sorry. Can you help me? Can I just change these headlines back? Because my personality is absolutely gone. Am I going to screw things up? And I was like, no, you're not. Go put it back. Because I was an ideal client for this person. I'm like, it does not read like you at all. This is a really big problem, so go change it back. I'll do keyword research. So I stepped in and I was able to help him at that point to do keyword research. And all I did was give him the keywords, and I was like, your personality needs to be in there. So here's how we strategically make sure that these keywords get matched up with the right pages, and then that they end up in the right headlines. So I was pretty much like, here's the words, you go do this. I gave him some pointers, and it was perfect. And now, his traffic is skyrocketing, and the personality is there, the keywords are there. And that's something that I really like to do, and that I feel like I blend really well, making sure the personality is there and the keyword. So the art and the science are both present.
Donna Piper: Actually, I have a testimonial for that. The one thing I love about your SEO is many things about what you said. But first, solve that. You do make it human, and you make it about the person. It is your business. Even if you're selling, a planner or something physical, or whatever, you have some crafts that you could do, and you're selling that. First, you make it personal, and you make it human. I think AI is great. I'm someone that loves AI. I just love technology. So not everyone's like that. I like to learn about it, basically, because I don't want to be afraid of it. I want to be able to have it work for me. And in this world, you also want people to get to know you. If they're just doing keywords, what about your personality? And then jive right away so that you make humans. And also, you teach people how to do what needs to be done. Even if you do it for them, you also are educating. Why? So there's some sort of reason. It's not flippant. And in the world of this chronic illness, unseen illness, you don't have a lot of control over what your body does. I do a lot of conservative care. I do a lot of stuff, and still my body is like, I'm not really wanting to work for you yet. But at least in your business, when you do have some clarity and have some energy, you can sit down and take control of something that it feels much more empowering because you have the choice of what word you want be put out there, how you want to be seen, and in a way that can create money, impact, just fun, or whatever you're doing in your life that you want to make. Maybe you're just telling stories and blogs, or maybe you want to do sub stack and all these other things, or Pinterest, this SEO goes across all of those platforms, right? And even now, from what I understand, Instagram has teamed up with Google where they do keyword search. So hashtags aren't a thing anymore. It's more about keywords. Is that correct?
Brittany Herzberg: I don't know the specifics about what's being rolled out, but I will say this. What I've always said is that, if you can be specific in your messaging, both in your profile, and again, using those key spots because there's even some key spots in there where you can put different things. The fact that I've had SEO in the bold part of my bio, people find me for SEO. I've gotten podcasts and interviews booked because of that. I've gotten clients. I've had referrals because of that. Simply because I had the right words in the right place. So optimizing your profile, and then being really specific and clear with what you're saying in your captions, and you can use hashtags or not use hashtags, optimizing your image titles for that too. There are still key things that you're saying, carry from one platform to the next. And you also mentioned something, which is that, I want you. I don't care if you hire me. I don't care if you work with someone else. I don't care if you do your own SEO. You're hitting the nail on the head, which I want you to know what to look for because I don't want you to just see that a website designer says, oh, I do SEO too. And then later on, you find out that that's not actually happening. I want you to know what to look for so that you can at least be informed. You can watch a video, you can listen to a podcast. You can hear me point something out. You can watch a loom video, whatever, and at least have that information. Because you're saying, Donna, it is so empowering. And especially like you're saying, when there's a really deep feeling of a lack of control with some stuff, if you can feel like there's some sense of control with other things, that's amazing.
Donna Piper: And then I do love how you lay things out, because you do it step by step. For me, my brain has changed over the last several years. I used to be much more academic. I have all these degrees. Things came easy. And now, I really need to be told like a four or five year old person. And that's not negative, but how you lay everything out with your information, and some education, and it's step by step so you don't have to guess. Working with computers and back end, everyone's website is a little different platform, and there's so many little things. Anyone that uses tech knows that even though our tech is really great these days, there's always something. You either have to turn off your phone and restart it because it just doesn't work when you get in there. So you do make it easy to bridge that gap of the information that you have, and then actually what to do with that information once you have it. So the other thing I want to ask you is, we talked about stages. But if someone gets started, how does it really take in order to, say you're starting from zero. If they have a website, how long does that process usually take even if they were to slow it down like six months a year to get all your SEO stuff?
Brittany Herzberg: We're not talking years. What I walk people through, there's like a three phase approach. Phase one is going to be, you're working on your main website pages, your homepage, about services, even your contact page, even your main blog page. I have this program right now, and people are like, really? This page too? Yeah, even that page. You have a page on your website. We are optimizing it. So the main ones first, you do not have to touch that again unless your answers to those three questions change. So if who you help, how you're helping people, or what you want to be known for changes? Then, yes, we want to look at that SEO for your main website pages. If it stays the same, you don't have to touch it. So that is the first thing. Then we're going to look at the content. I like people having a blog on their own website. Sub stack is cool. Medium is cool, but it's not bringing you the SEO juice. I want you and your website to have the SEO juice even if that means putting a bigger article on sub stack, and then having a smaller one on your website, or vice versa. I still want you to have some content on your website. If you have a podcast, you can embed the audio on your blog posts so you can have a really simple piece of content on your website. If you have YouTube videos, you can put the YouTube videos embedded in a blog post. So there's all these different things, but you can still bring it and house it on your own website.
So content is the second phase on your website, and then we're looking at it. The other things off your website, so your social media profiles, your listings in different directories. That happens a lot with therapists. I've had so many therapists in my world recently, so that definitely helps. What happens with therapists? Your podcast guest interviews, things that you can do to set yourself up for success. As well as the podcast host, how can you even help them make that episode in their show more findable and be an asset to them. So your own website, your main website pages first, then the content pages on your website. So blogs, blog posts, and then everything off your website. That's what I have people do. I think that answered your question.
Donna Piper: Depending on how many pages and what kind of time allocation that you have, it's really starting with what you already have, and optimizing that, maybe tweaking some things if those three questions are not clear. Tell me if I'm wrong, that even when you started, and maybe you had different aspects of SEO that you were doing, the fact that there was the anchor of an SEO, whether it was for copywriters or for entrepreneurs, that can always change a little as your business grows. Or if you change direction, you still have that anchor as SEO. And even if you find a keyword, that really answers all three of those questions, which you basically might find one word having some consistency with that actually will help start to drive the stuff. So you could feel like you're actually generating some sort of leads or traffic, right?
Brittany Herzberg: So if I were to say SEO copywriter, I could just take that, and use it on all of my main website pages, in the headlines, in the titles, and the images, things like that. The places that it needs to go, I could certainly do that. And it would be an intro step. So maybe it's not super well researched, and maybe it's not incredibly strategic, but it's something, and it's there, and that's very helpful.
Donna Piper: So it could start right away. I was always fascinated. I kind of have this weird thing where I really wanted to figure out social media. I don't know why. But I really also don't want to show up and do reels all the time, and all that stuffIf I was really good at that. If I had an editor and someone to film me to make it cool, but it's just me. But what I love is that Daniel, you have this story that he created his, and he didn't do social media. Can we talk about that a little bit? Because that still fascinates me. I'm like, I just want to do that. And then I start playing around with social media.
Brittany Herzberg: So he is my boyfriend. He is an editor and we started, I was like, what do you want to do? Because I had my business, my massage practice at that point, so I knew a little bit more about starting a business, marketing a business, what you needed. He's all set up, and I'm like, well, what do you want to do to market and tell people that you have this business? And he was like, I don't want to be on social media. Like, okay, so what's your plan? And this was at the beginning of me understanding what SEO was, and starting to do things. So we were almost learning in tandem. And it's funny that you mentioned that you liked still going and playing on social media. Because I was like, okay, I set up my website, and then I'm gonna go still play on social media. And I was doing guest teaching, and the podcast interviews, because I love people. I love interacting with people. I'm totally cool to be stuck in a closet too, but I like people. And meanwhile, he was optimizing all of his main website pages. He was blogging. He has over 100 blogs now, and it shows with our website stuff because he has so much more traffic. He has been up to like 17,000 visits on his website per month. I am not there. I think I'm just like a thousand. But this is a good point.
It's not about the numbers necessarily. It's like, are you attracting the right people? And are they then converting in whatever that converting means? Are they signing up for your email list, listening to your podcast, reading your blog post? And of course, buying from you or signing up to work with you? So it's not just a numbers thing. But when you have more volume visiting your website, you have more of a likelihood of people then going, oh, yeah, I need to work with you. I want to buy this thing from you. Or I want to sign up for this class with you. So his success story is pretty much that he did know social media. He does have a LinkedIn profile, but hasn't really used it. Has kind of used Pinterest, but it's actually pulled in, I would say, the wrong clients. And that's a whole other story. But he's got that. I just got him to get an Instagram profile, because you have to have an Instagram profile in order to have a threads account. He still hasn't used it. So it exists, but he really hasn't leaned into it. So if you're like, well, he has profiled, but we haven't really done anything with them.
Donna Piper: And that's really great too. If you don't want to do social media, and you still really want to do your business, and all of this is going back to this theme like, you can do it the way you want to do it. And you're really in charge because you're answering those three questions. Your business really is about you. Even if it's about something else, it's really about you. And starting from that point and playing around with it means that I have all the power to change my SEO. So it's not like I have to go in and find the right keywords. You first have to figure out, what do you want to be known for? And then kind of branch out that way. So when you do this hub, everything else is a spoke, but the hub is you. And if you just want to do your website, you have that option. If you want to do social media, you have that, whatever your vibe is. And at the end of the day, if he has 17,000 views or whatever, it's a numbers game. I don't like dating sometimes, right? You can have a super high conversion rate. But if you have so much more traffic, then your conversion rate can be smaller, and you can still make your revenues goals. When you have less traffic, your conversion rate needs to be a little bit higher. Conversion rates really aren't these huge things.
Brittany Herzberg: It needs to be like 20 or 30%.
Donna Piper: And then he did this all without having, how many years later, three or four? Now he's just having these social media accounts to kind of have, and maybe play with something else. That's a good basis, especially if you're someone like me with chronic illness, or even if you want to take time off for whatever reason, or you want to have family time, or if something happens where you do need to take time off, that your website is still in the place, that you're still getting this traffic, and then you can kind of pick and choose depending on what you sell. Or if you work with people one on one, or what projects you take. I mean, it really is marketing wise, and all of the crazy down the rabbit hole of business, online marketers, let's make an impact with all of the things. I've done everything from Tony Robbins to The Girl Next Door, I've looked at all of the stuff. And there's a lot of other things, but SEO, I think, is one of the least talked about.
Brittany Herzberg: I agree. And even now with AI on the rise. AI is here, and people are obsessed with that. But they're forgetting the fact that we can show up as an AI search result because you have SEO working. That's another avenue now that people are being discovered through AI searches. People are going in and asking the other things that are in existence right now, these questions and the reason that our websites can show up, or even our social profiles, or even a quote that we said somewhere, even our podcast episodes. The reason that can show up is because we have taken the time to optimize for SEO, and then SEO is working, and then it's helping you show up over here as an answer.
Donna Piper: And that is something that I think every business coach, an entrepreneur, a business that you really need to focus on first. There's so many things to focus on. But at the end of the day, it's always about leads and being seen. So you have to be seen, and how you want to be seen is a huge hurdle. We just talked about that, but I change from season to season.
Brittany Herzberg: I've had evolutions. You've had evolutions. But the cool thing is, SEO can change with you. Like you said, you may have this anchor word, but that can change as you go into the next season. Like I said, if you're helping a different person, offering a different service, whatever that looks like, SEO can grow with you.
Donna Piper: It is kind of the secret sauce. And once it's in place, it does all the heavy lifting for you. You just have to make sure that you're still consistent with what you're doing. There's other things we could talk about, but we magnet all that stuff. But really, what I love is that you don't have to know what your ideal client is searching for. You have to know what you're doing and what you want to say, and then that lines up. And then from there, you have to run a business, and that's a whole other thing.
Brittany Herzberg: But at least it gives you a starting point. And then as far as what content that you create, you source that all the time from the questions that my actual clients are asking me, or the questions that I'm getting in the DMs, or as responses to my emails. You did ask about timing, and I didn't quite answer that. But when you're going in and optimizing your website, I've had people do it in as little as two weeks, in as long as maybe two months. The process, if you need it to go a little slower, it can. But if you're like, I need to knock this out, or I want to knock this out so that it can actually be in place. For me, that's amazing. So you get your website set up with the main keywords, and then creating content is what will keep that really being a sustainable marketing strategy for you. People flip out when I tell them this. It can look as little as one blog post a month. That's maybe at least a minimum of 500 words, so it does not have to break you. You can use AI to help you craft the copy, and then definitely go in, read it, edit it, add your own perspective, add in maybe some stories of your own lived experience, or working with a client. But it can be that simple.
Setting up your main website pages, and then creating a piece of content each month. If you want to do more, you could do a piece of content each week if you're feeling good. If you're not, then you can do it once a month, and it's enough. And that is liberating too because you don't have to think like, okay, now that I'm committed to SEO, now I have to do the search engine thing. I don't need to always have to show up and do stuff. People think that it's going to be more complicated once you're doing the SEO. And really, SEO is front loaded. That's how I say it. So you're doing a lot of work, and you're putting a lot of time and effort at the beginning. But then it gets easier because you've already learned what this stuff even means. So that feels more familiar and more empowering versus, I feel like an idiot. And then the amount of work that you have to do is a lot less. You and I like Instagram. But if we think about how much time we put in over there, that could be so much better set on our website.
Donna Piper: 100%. I think I'm always gonna have a thing where I like, I want it to work for me, but it's more of like this. I love talking to people and helping people that way. So Instagram is never really going to be my place. I guess it's that round thing on a square page. Yeah. Famous.
Brittany Herzberg: I'm with you. I kind of want it to work, but we had this other stuff.
Donna Piper: Yeah, I have this other stuff. And this other stuff is really where I can talk more about what I want to do, and how I want to help people and everything. So on that line, how do you help people? What are all your ways that you interact with, with your clients?
Brittany Herzberg: Do it yourself. If you want to get a product, get a download, and do it yourself. I'll keep this really simple for everyone, since I know that our brains are a little scrambly. The best place to start would be, I have this SEO Basics Course, it's under 200 bucks. You can get in. You can hear me talk about all these different concepts with SEO. You get a high level view of how the whole web connects, both on your website and off your website. There's video tutorials, there are resources that you can make copies of. And if you're driven, and if you're a go-getter, you could definitely take the information that I give you, and create your whole website SEO strategy. Someone just did that recently, and her traffic grew by 85% in four weeks. So I know it was absolutely incredible. And really, the traffic growing only happened in like two weeks time because she plugged it in two weeks after she created it. But anyway, that's the SEO Basics Course. If you want to, do this yourself. If you are like, I don't even want to touch this, but this sounds great, and you have the funds, and you want to hire this out, I do Done For You SEO. I always start people off with their website. Again, their main website pages. So we start there. And then if you're like, okay, I want to do blogs, but I don't have the capacity. Or could someone help me? I do blog post optimization, so that's something that we could continue on with. But those are the two main channels I would put people in. If you want to hand it off, you can hand it off. If you want to learn about it yourself and do it, you definitely can.
Donna Piper: That's awesome. And if you're interested at all, check Brittany out. She has a great podcast. You also get on her mailing list, because you just recently, I think, sent a little tutorial about key search.
Brittany Herzberg: Key search, detailed SEO. I talk about key search all the time. It's my favorite keyword.
Donna Piper: So get in Brittany's world, because you do offer so much help along the way. And then also your programs. I know I've taken them firsthand, and you've looked at my stuff. You also do cool things. You'll do audits for people. I think you have beyond that, you do have a couple other ways where they can do half and half, right?
Brittany Herzberg: There's mentorship, and then there's a group coaching program. I've tried to make a lane for everyone. However you like learning, we can meet up.
Donna Piper: The one that you do make it very simple, and it makes like, oh, yeah. Of course, I want to learn this stuff, even if it's not my wheelhouse. If I'm more creative, or I'd really have someone else, you do make it yourself. It's simple to learn. It's not as overwhelming as you think. Once you have the words, where to put it into your website, and then you have lots of tools about how to check that as well, doing it on your own and watching YouTube video after YouTube video, I think you've done it too. You're just like, what are they talking about? My website doesn't look like that. It seems overwhelming. So anyone out there listening, follow Brittany, get on her website, take her courses, and you will learn. Either you'll learn it and be like, I really would like to give this to my assistant or someone else to help me out with this, or I'll just hire Brittany to do it all, depending on where you are.
But I just love that it's more center focused, and it is helpful for people. Because if you want to make money and an impact, or whatever you want to do in the world, and you might have been listening and you're like, I have had this chronic illness for the last 15 years, I can't really, whatever you might be like, oh, I can start a business. I have an idea. Everyone has an idea of how they want to help. And I can use this as a tool to help me, so I can make it manageable. So if you're someone else that has chronic fatigue among everything, you really have to do half of what you do. And then within there, you kind of have to limit yourself to make sure that you don't overdo it. Because then, it'll set back your healing. And if you don't have any of those things and just be happy to listen, because Brittany is fun, a very delightful, fun podcast. We just can't stop giggling. Everyone needs to be happy. Not all days are giggly, but this is a good one. This is a good giggly day that you can also just know that you can bring whatever you want to the world in whatever capacity, wherever you're at. You don't have chronic illness, but you need SEO, this is a perfect podcast for you too. I love what you said about front load, because that's what you really need to do. I was in a lot of programs where you had to create all of these things and have pillars, and content, it's just so much. How are people going to get there to even read my content pillars? Or my very cute alliteration of my three, whatever RS, or whatever we want them to see cute stuff.
Brittany Herzberg: That's a great point. If you can definitely be fun and creative on your website or in your content, we need to get them there. And SEO is definitely the magnet that gets the right people to you. They go to your website, they check you out, they do a vibe check, and then they're like, oh, this person's cool. I want to work with them.
Donna Piper: Yeah. And I love that. It's all flipped, because it really seems like the right way, how it's funneled. Working with you as SEO, you first, and then, all the other things matter to a degree. But at the end of the day, if people can't find you, it doesn't matter how awesome you are. It just doesn't really matter, because most people do Google. And like you said, with AI, I know this is another thing, which I think you do very well at, testimonials that are keywords. And that's a whole other thing. Because you're using the testimonials and those words, and then you turn it into content, as what they said. And that is kind of one of the number one things, surveys. How AI is referring to people is based on testimonials. Any sort of reviews you get, AI is looking for whoever is getting the better reviews. So if you're getting bad reviews, or not such great testimonials, they're not going to offer you as a place. Like in your area, these five people, if they have any sort of negative reviews, AI is looking through that, and then only giving you the places with good reviews. So to that point, once you have your keywords, and then you do some optimization, then you really kind of look with clients and how that integrates, I think you do great.
Brittany Herzberg: I was laughing when you started, because I really avoided looking at my clients stuff to see how it was performing. And I also had clients where I would give them the deliverables, and then they wouldn't put it into place, or it would be put in place improperly. I had one client where I wrote a website copy for them, and they put all of the copy on Canva pictures, and their whole website was Canva pictures. Your words are not going to work for you if you put them on Canva pictures on your website. So I was like, I got squatted out of that. So I just got really defeated, and I stopped checking to see what was happening with client projects. And earlier this year, I was in a program, and same thing. We figured out lots of different things, like my origin story, my framework, and my this and that. And one of the things was that your client wins. And I was like, crap. I have to go do that. So I spent like two weeks deep diving into tens of people's websites, their podcasts and all this stuff. And I was like, oh, my gosh, my stuff works really fast. I really do know what I'm talking about. So now, I can't turn up. I can't turn myself off. I'm like, this is what everyone has to know about.
Donna Piper: I love that you say that, because that is really how it works in business. I think I know this, but I'm not sure. People are people, and they do whatever they're gonna do with your information. If it doesn't work, I didn't really help you because you didn't implement it how it needs to be implemented, really not a reflection of you. So that does play around with this, because when I was brick and mortar, when I was doing stuff, it was so much easier for me than this.
Brittany Herzberg: But I kind of lost my train of thought a little bit. But basically, it's reviews and testimonials, and being in person.
Donna Piper: Having a chronic illness and being a solo entrepreneur, especially because you're by yourself, even if you're with a community, you're really by yourself, so you really don't know the feedback. When I'm in person with someone, they're either gonna like, what I'm doing? Or they're gonna say something like, I like it. Or not. But when you're in the online world, they may write to you. You can ask for a testimonial. They may or may not write you one, not for any bad thing, right? So you think because of the feedback you're getting or not getting, you have a view of how good or not good you are. And that isn't always necessarily true. Same with a chronic illness, where you don't have to be alone all the time. But a lot of time, you are because you don't feel good so you just kind of want to be alone. So your reality and your perception of where you are in the world shifts, and it gets very, very tiny. And it's not really the truth. When you're kind of forced yourself into a deep dive, which I'm glad you did, you opened yourself up to be like, oh, my God, look how great I am. I know that's not a comfortable place for you to say. I can say, oh, my God, how great you are. And now you're confident. You're like, oh, no, I am great. And that's a big shift. I know it's a big shift. I like to compliment people. I don't like to compliment myself.
Brittany Herzberg: We're so funny as people. That's even come up in the SEO program,where people are like, I have testimonials in Google Docs that I'm cool. Can we put those on your website? Could we tell other people about that? Because if we think about our own buying behavior and who we connect with, and who we want to work with, we want to know that they've done this stuff before. We want to know that other people had good experiences with them, and we know that we provide a good experience, but we have to tell them or show them by way of somebody else's words.
Donna Piper: Yes. And that can also be like, I'm not sure. You can drag your feed a little bit. But the good thing is going back to as long as you have some keywords in the right places, in the right order, then those things that are a little more uncomfortable could kind of come later on. But yeah, I am so thankful that you had this chat with me today. It is one of the places where everyone needs support, especially if you have these invisible, unseen illnesses. Even migraines, all that stuff, chronic pain. You're going through something that people can't see, but it's affecting your daily life. If you put in support, that is just going to help your life run a little easier. And this is a great way to do that. It doesn't take a few weeks, to a few months, depending on what route you go. And your ROI, which I love to talk about. That return on investment, it's much faster. It's a little more satisfying because you can see if there's more traffic or not, and then you can course correct if it's not. So it's more tangible information. It's not like, oh, my god, I created this amazing avatar and crickets, and I have this beautiful copy that shows my personality and cricket. And that could be defeated. It's like, what am I doing? There's always a crisis, but with the SEO in there and like, okay, those words aren't really matching up. It makes you define what you're doing more so you get more clear, and then you're able to talk more clearly to potential people that you want to help.
Brittany Herzberg: And all the light bulbs start going off, all the things start connecting in your brain. I have clients who are moved to the website SEO, and they're like, oh, this is how I approach my, whatever topic. Oh, this is a blog post that I can write about. I'm like, yeah, you're getting it.
Donna Piper: You're like, yay. They're like, you're a proud little mom or school teacher, whoever you want to do that. So I know we've talked about a lot of things, but this question is broad. I'd like to ask all my guests. It could be about your personal journey, business, whatever you like, SEO, but what is one thing that you know now that you wish you had known earlier? Something that would have made the path gentler, faster. Or for someone else walking in a similar road, if they hear this, that it's going to cut their journey, that they don't have to do all the meandering if they don't want to. What is something that you've learned in any area that you would want to impart with someone, that if Britanyy five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago would have known this thing could help other people.
Brittany Herzberg: Time to leave. When you're getting the hint that it's time to leave or time to stop offering a certain thing, this can apply to personal or professional, if you're getting that nudge, it's okay to end it, or it's okay to leave. It was good for the time that it was in your life or part of your world, and you can go on to do something else that's definitely shown up with dating, with friendships, with clients, with business offers. And I used to feel so bad that I was stopping an offering, or leaving a friendship, or ending something, and I just made it out in my head to be like, I was the worst person ever. But I'm like, no, it was just naturally time for that thing to be done. And that's okay.
Donna Piper: Love that. Just because you've committed to that thing or thought, was this commitment that it's not a character flaw, it's not a negative, and I'm assuming since you're imparting that to people, that once you have ended those things, it sounds like the other things opened up for you.
Brittany Herzberg: Oh yeah. And you've been a part of a few of those things. Even in my world, I've heard some of those things. And yeah, definitely, I was hemming and hawing about making certain decisions. And then once I made them and articulated them, it was like a sigh of relief, and new good things immediately showed up.
Donna Piper: And so wonderful. Sometimes, we're afraid to make the step. But a lot of times, we're afraid to end because if I end this, then what if I'm making the wrong decision? It's going to turn out bad. But I love that you're saying that that is something you wish you would have known earlier. When you feel that it's time to be done, it's not negative. You don't have to burn bridges out there. It's just really like, no, I need to be done with this for whatever reason. And you don't really. You need to give a lot of explanation that it's no longer serving you.
Brittany Herzberg: This is something I've witnessed with my boyfriend, and he helped me. Because as women, you want to justify everything. It's like, well, I can't do this, or I'm done with this. If it's just a feeling, it's just a feeling. And you can just state like, I need to end this. I need to be done. I'm not going to be offering this thing anymore, whatever that looks like. It's okay. If you just say that, stop it right there.
Donna Piper: I love that, because it also gives you room to evolve. And not feel like, what will people think if I end it? As women, yes, there's this whole story.
Brittany Herzberg: At least one, if not 20.
Donna Piper: And most people are like, okay, whatever. She doesn't offer that, or she's kind of moved on. If it's interpersonal relationships, I'm sure there's a lot more nuances to it, obviously. But if it's an offer or something, you don't have to be like, oh, come on. I know I do that. I'm like, I did it again. But really, no one cares.
Brittany Herzberg: And the people that you're going to be able to help after you make that switch, it's going to be so fulfilling, and they're going to be excited. So if you need to think about something, maybe think about all the other good stuff that can come in, because you're really being called to do something more aligned with what you want to do that has more energy, and you're not having the energy you do have in places. Like a chronic illness or something, your energy is precious. So if it's going somewhere that it's not really great and it's not feeling good, do not let your energy go there, because it's going to make the drain 10 times worse.
Donna Piper: 100%. That's such a good point because you do get in this like, oh, well, I need to have some assemblance of normalcy, but it's taking more energy than it needs to. And it could be pushing my healing further back. And not in a bad way, but to be more intuitive. I love that you brought that up, because that is a big part of men and women. But women really listen to their intuition. I tell everyone, and I've been going on for the last couple of months in my podcast, you know more about what's going on with your body. And sometimes, it's hard to articulate. But with service providers, doctors or people, if they don't know about it, then you're just like, I know they roll your eyes. They're like, whatever. That's a nice story. It's in your head. Or you're whining about it, or what you're reporting is not actually true, or things would be different. So honoring your intuition of knowing when to stop something is a huge thing, and then having the courage to keep doing that over and over, especially when you're kind of shut down with it. So yeah, what a beautiful day. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to see and talk with you. So tell people where, I guess Instagram, where you hang out, and where you hang out on social media. Or I'm going to leave all your links below to all your programs and everything we talked about. But if you want to just tell people where you can find you.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. I try to make it pretty easy. My website is brittanyherzberg.com. Again, we'll have the link because spelling is really fun. And then my instagram handle is brittany_herzberg. I do hang out on Instagram. I do hang out on Threads. I love meeting people in the DMs. I joke that I kind of live on Instagram, and I kind of do. So feel free to say hi. And then you did mention my email list. I've been pouring a lot more attention into my email list this year, so definitely get on there if learning SEO or just being in the world of SEO is on your radar for this year and beyond.
Donna Piper: Yes. And she does have a really amazing, fun podcast. We were talking about a crushed record. So your podcast is on where people listen to their podcast, but also YouTube as well, right?
Brittany Herzberg: I just have the audio on there. I don't have the video.
Donna Piper: It's super fun to work with Brittany. She's a delight. So again, if you think SEO cannot be fun, it is simple and so worth your dollars to front load it so you could start getting traffic. And even if you're not sure about where you should go, or just getting some traffic, you'll figure that out, just like she mentioned about Daniel, that Pinterest. He gets people from there, but maybe that's not his ideal client. There's lots of things to figure out, but this is a good place to start earning some income, getting some traffic, and just helping him have whatever impact he would like. So thank you again, Brittany, so much for being here. You brought so much clarity and compassion to something that can feel overwhelming. And all of us still need to make an income. And if you're listening, thinking, wait, maybe I don't have to hustle or be on Instagram 24/7, unless you like it. Brittany does at least work, I just mess around. This is your invitation to slow down and let your words, and Brittany's magic do some of the work for you. So go check out The Basic B Podcast, follow her online, and peek at the show notes for all the ways to connect and get started with her. And as always, thank you for listening. Bye, bye.
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PODCAST OUTRO: If this episode made you feel even more seen, brought you clarity or reminded you that you're not alone, please take a moment to rate, review and send it to someone who needs that same reminder. You can find more tools, blog posts and support over at donnapiper.com. And hey, don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a question for me? Every month, I do a listener coaching episode, and I'd love to hear from you. Send your questions, stories or flare up confessions to [email protected], and you just might hear your answer on the show. Until next time, Dear Body, I'm Listening. I am so glad that you are here.
